lol, a couple people had a heads up these pups where coming but I didn't expect anyone to guess and I would never have guessed it either. Lyder was right with them looking like xingu sp alot and since I sold my xingu the closest thing to them when they are both young is scobina. I don't think many of these are in North America and I only know of one other breeding pair in the states. There are some people overseas that keep these and breed them but being on the banned list makes them a little harder to get over here. They are my favourite of the small ray species.