Alligator gar Arapima & RTC in a 20 gallon long?

hustler

hustler

New Member
LOL Ok..... Now that we have some attention.....
How big a tank do you guys figure one should have to house an alligator gar?
A redtail Catfish?
An arapima?
A giant snakehead?
A full grown silver aro?
There is ALOT of myths here...... And alot of mystery when it comes to google images of 20 foot monsters and 3" babies at your local LFS.....
I would love for some of us to CUT through the Bulls^#t and be honest about Actual tank sizes and mature fish we have personally seen Healthy or otherwise.
I have a bunch to post here but I want to see other peoples views before i get flammed ;)
And a quick FYI..... Marek is on the way back from calgary with a few Gator Gars he grabbed for me on his LFS tour right now so timing couldnt be better for this one :)
 
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There are too many threads on MFK, Google, ect to list.... But well known guys that are highly respected with 180-230-300 gallon tanks with 4-10K worth of fish in them.... And I mean platnium arapima blood reds 20" ST ect ect. they bought the fish....... why didnt they buy the 10,000 gallon to go with it?
Now im not saying it is ok to buy an alligator gar With the intention of keeping it in a 180 its whole life...... But odds are if you keep it for the 4-6 years it will take to outgrow that tank you will have either bought it a bigger tank or had an offer from someone with a bigger tank already and sold it..... I have met guys that have stunted fish, had poor health due to size constraints malnurished ect ect but when i met them....and the fish they were donating it to a larger home..... too late mind you but still case in point i figure. Like my 18" RTC that came out of an actual 20 gallon tank.... Its doing well now in a 180 and It was just as much a score for me to get one with some gurth as it was for the guy who had to look me in the eyes and tell me he knew better...... Information would be the key to stopping this before it starts..... but tell that to the LFS thats selling them with the 20 gallon setup not flame the guy that can actually Keep something of that nature for the better part of that fishes forseeable future....
Or maybe Im dead wrong and you all can crusify me now
 
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I think there are too many threads asking what is the minimum tank size you can get away with and for a while I was one of those people. After a quick scolding from my wife I am more concerned with what size will ensure my fish thrives. I went from spending $1500 for a 230 gallon set up to now over $6000 for my planned 450 gallon for one arowana and undetermined tankmates. Personally I wouldn't own a true monsterfish unless I could afford a 10,000 gallon tank/pool.

You should see what most people keep/kept $25K - $100K snakes in.
 
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I'm not into flaming people but does bother me when in this day in age of the Internet people can't take the 5 mins to research a potential buy and find out if it's right for them or not. Plus I find it bothersome when people will completely for go the health of an animal and it's well being just to own it. I think because were keeping them in captivity we should be trying to afford them as much space as we can to give them a good and healthy home. The problem with an alligator gar or arapaima is they will outgrow a 200 gallon tank in far less than 5 years with proper care and more like 2 years . People always have intentions of getting that bigger tank but it rarely happens and is extremely expensive to do so so the animals get stuck in these small tanks for far to long become stunted and dumped. In doing it takes a lot of years of the life of the animal and think most end up dying and never finding a proper home ( very few people have tanks in the thousands of gallons to house them and when they get big the demand for them drops off). I've heard a realistic aquarium size for an adult redtail cat is 1500 gallons which I think is reasonable . For arapaima I've heard 10,000 gallons which anyone who's ever seen one they really are gigantic fish. Looking at the 2500 gallon tank at big als deffinately doesn't look big enough for an adult. Theres also the issue of if you have a few fish all in the 100 pound ( arapaima will easily reach these sizes and more in captivity) and up range is the enormous cost of feeding them . All this said if someone has the funds and dedication to devote to them into adulthood then all the power to them and they have my envy lol. Realistically though 95% of these giants are doomed to live a miserable life and die early due to pet stores bad practices and impulsive buyers wanting them for the cool factor. Of course that shouldnt take away from the truly dedicated and caring hobbyist that is capable of it.





QUOTE=hustler;28071]There are too many threads on MFK, Google, ect to list.... But well known guys that are highly respected with 180-230-300 gallon tanks with 4-10K worth of fish in them.... And I mean platnium arapima blood reds 20" ST ect ect. they bought the fish....... why didnt they buy the 10,000 gallon to go with it?
Now im not saying it is ok to buy an alligator gar With the intention of keeping it in a 180 its whole life...... But odds are if you keep it for the 4-6 years it will take to outgrow that tank you will have either bought it a bigger tank or had an offer from someone with a bigger tank already and sold it..... I have met guys that have stunted fish, had poor health due to size constraints malnurished ect ect but when i met them....and the fish they were donating it to a larger home..... too late mind you but still case in point i figure. Like my 18" RTC that came out of an actual 20 gallon tank.... Its doing well now in a 180 and It was just as much a score for me to get one with some gurth as it was for the guy who had to look me in the eyes and tell me he knew better...... Information would be the key to stopping this before it starts..... but tell that to the LFS thats selling them with the 20 gallon setup not flame the guy that can actually Keep something of that nature for the better part of that fishes forseeable future....
Or maybe Im dead wrong and you all can crusify me now[/QUOTE]
 
This pic shows exactly how these fish are not so easily stunted as people seem to believe. A fish capable of over 8 feet and hundreds of pounds in captivity will still be in the range of well over 100 pounds into it's adulthood. As well as multiple feet ( arapaima and alligator gars I'm sure can quite easily still push 5 feet and up even in captivity) . I'm 6 feet and 220 pounds which is what they average and max out at twice that ! ( truly big crazy beasts they are lol )


hustler said:
Also LOL welcome to japan
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Well when it comes to Japanese fish keeping or any other asian countries, there are no limits. Especially in Japan that have small houses. As for people who have 180g, 250g, 300g, 500g and so on but still keep keep large. Well we can't really do much about them as it's their choice. Their is no law that we can't keep large fish. We are all guilty anyway as even with proper care and enough room for our fish, but still won't breed, then we are still not doing the right thing. Especially of the fish is a wild caught. So if a person wants a big fish so be it. People should not judge him/her. As long as the fish won't be release in the wild and become a potential treat to native habitat.

BTW... even captive breed arapaima release back in the wild won't get up to 8 feet. We caught some release araipamas before and they been release back in 1998 at 2.5 feet and when we caught them again they were only 6 feet to almost 7 feet long in 2008. Same thing with gator gars only max out 4-6 feet. In home aquarium, gator gar CB or WC max out at 4-5 feet. Even wild caught only at average size of 6 feet. You have to know that there are 5 species of arapaimas. The "arapaima gigas" which grow to be 8-10 feet or more is probably now extinct and most common arapaima today even captive breed are "arapaima arapaima" which have average size of 6 feet.

As for what's the min tank they should be.... Not many can afford large tank or have a place for a big tank. I have to place my 700g at my girlfriend's place due to a smaller space a my own house. I have a captive breed gator gar in there. If I have a place that is big enough to have a 10,000g then I would have done so. But I can only do that in asia and I actually have a pond there with 3 arapaimas and 2 gator gars. You can't see the fish as the person that does the maintenance does not maintain it to often. I'm in Canada so I leave someone in charge but lazy.
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hondas3000 said:
could be it photoshop? There is no way the arapaima have room to turn around.
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Its not.... Ive seen a small video of another one like this too.
In japan space is super tight so every gallon is used the best way it can.
1 blood red in a 180 gallon tank with 22000 blood parrots ect ect.
Im not saying that pic is right in any way shape or form..... But the guy who owns that fish must have givin it some amazing care other than the size of the tank as they are hard to find in the wild that size now nevermind crammed up in there. And it does look healthy.....
 
Those arapaima only look to be in the 5 to 6 foot range and that is what you would expect them to grow with good care in captivity. The tank is way too small we all agree ( looks still under 1000 gallons) but he has obviously gone to great care to maintain water quality. I think the same principles should apply as for the care of our arowana. On average we shoot for roughly 3x the length of the fish and the same depth of the fish as a minimum . On average aros in captivity grow to around 24 inches with some closer to 30 and generally provide 6 feet for a 24 inch fish in length and 24 inches in depth. With that in mind a good minimum for an arapaima would 15 to 18 feet long ( 5 to 6 foot length average ) and 5 to 6 feet in depth with at least 4 feet of height brings you to around 3000 gallons +. Keeping them in only a few hundred gallons would be like keeping an aro in a 30 to 50 gallon tank of which most people see a problem with. Whatever your view it is great to have these threads so people can discuss there views on these truly amazing fish( like I said if I could dedicate the room I think they require I'd have one too lol)
 
hustler said:
Its not.... Ive seen a small video of another one like this too.
In japan space is super tight so every gallon is used the best way it can.
1 blood red in a 180 gallon tank with 22000 blood parrots ect ect.
Im not saying that pic is right in any way shape or form..... But the guy who owns that fish must have givin it some amazing care other than the size of the tank as they are hard to find in the wild that size now nevermind crammed up in there. And it does look healthy.....
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I've also seen this pic on mfk. I believe it was a picture taken in the mid 90's so who knows where those fish are. The guy (I forget his name) who owned these fish also had a tank with like 12 fly river turtles in it.
 
thats crazy !!!! way to small of a space for that fish. has to be photo shopped!!!
but i rlly do want 1!!!!!!!
 
cheon said:
thats crazy !!!! way to small of a space for that fish. has to be photo shopped!!!
but i rlly do want 1!!!!!!!
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It's really not shopped. The pic was taken in the 90's so it doesn't hold up like todays pics.
 
Nico in Holland, Mike in NY, Michael in Ontario - these are a few of the people I know who seem able to care for true monster fish in tanks suitable to their ultimate needs. The money needed to follow in their footsteps is what keeps most true fish nuts from following them I think. :)

I have seen first hand in Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, etc., how many street vendors will move a near full grown show Asian arowana from a holding tank somewhere into a tiny cramped 30-50 gallon tank - just for the day. Then at night they move it back (presumably) to its larger holding tank where ever that is. My guess is that the arapaima photos from Japan involve some process along those lines (i.e. someone got some good publcity photos for a restaurant/cafe etc.). ;)

The fact I hesitate getting a pair of BD's for my 300 gallon tells you where I personally stand on this issue; ever since Tim's old female Henlei was described as the size of a man-hole cover, I find myself debating whether I can properly care for them in the 300 gallon tank I am setting up. I think I can, but won't they end up being like betta in tiny cube-tank? :confused: And so now I think I may ultimately keep just one ray and one aro.

Just because you buy the big tank and gear does not ensure you will ever use it. Due to family circumstances I had to liquidate (pun intended) my 550 gallon and stand (taking a nice haircut for my pains), and downsize to a 300. Eventually I plan to go big again, in the 5,000 gallon range if possible. ;)
 
a fully grown aripama like that would not take kindly to be moved around.....its sheer size and strength would bust easily make it buts out a tank that size......i highly doubt the authenticity of that pic.....
 
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