Pang Long AAA Cross Back Thread

[Cirrus]

Here is an interesting thread that questions the "green horseshoes" found on a Pang Long AAA XB recently sold to Alberta.

http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339876

I first learned about "core scale horse-shoes" from the owner of DFI (Dragon Fish Industry). She told me that when a green is crossed with a red or gold that you often get a green core horse-shoe marking in the core of the scale. This can be a recessive trait meaning it is possible to skip generations. If this trait carries over to adult hood, it would indicate that the fish is less than has been advertised. In other words, it is not worthy of being called "AAA" or "Triple A". Presumably, if the horse-shoe marking fades as the fish grows, it may simply have been a transitory stage in the fish' scale color development.

The questions I have are:

1.) What is the precise classification system used to label a fish as Triple A?

2.) Why or why not should core scale horse shoes play a role in such a determination?

3.) Does anyone out there know anything more about core scale horse shoes that they can share?

 

[Kenta]

The arowana industry is so intricate and complex, you think you know a little, but the reality is you probably know just a small portion of the whole picture. I am always learning about not only the fish, but the complexity and politics within the industry.

What classifies a fish as AAA? From what i know the farm will separate the best fish from the normal fish from the not so great fish and charge a price difference according to quality.

But, the fish are so young and small that they can still go through many changes... a good quality fish at a small size can have really bad development and lead to a not so great adult... also vice versa.. a not so great juvenile fish can have tremendous growth and outshine others. Some fish will have normal development and then completely stop... and then all the sudden develop like crazy, so called late bloomers...Only time will tell.

As for question 2 and 3 im kinda useless.

All i know is that all the GreenXSRs Ive seen all have obvious green horseshoe core color with really red fins.

 

[Kolewolf]

I am a little new to this and quite niave but I thought that the individual farms made their own Certs and thus could kinda put want the want on them. Thusly claiming a AAA when it is in fact no better than someone elses regular. Of course I could be out in leftfield here,all alone, playing on my own!!!

 

[Kenta]

It is all up to the farms to grade their own fish... i doubt there is any sort of standardization that they all follow.

Some farms do not even grade their fish and sell them all at a standard price and get the importers to sort through them and grade them themselves!

The farm is in complete control as to what goes on the certificates... heck, a farm could even make a certificate saying "UBER DUPER CRAZY RAINBOW GOLD RED XBELLY LONG FIN POOPING MACHINE" but that would not go to well with marketing. For farms that grade their fish A AA AAA we rely on them that they grade them accurately...

 

[xbackgolden]

Here is an interesting thread that questions the "green horseshoes" found on a Pang Long AAA XB recently sold to Alberta.

http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339876

I first learned about "core scale horse-shoes" from the owner of DFI (Dragon Fish Industry). She told me that when a green is crossed with a red or gold that you often get a green core horse-shoe marking in the core of the scale. This can be a recessive trait meaning it is possible to skip generations. If this trait carries over to adult hood, it would indicate that the fish is less than has been advertised. In other words, it is not worthy of being called "AAA" or "Triple A". Presumably, if the horse-shoe marking fades as the fish grows, it may simply have been a transitory stage in the fish' scale color development.

The questions I have are:

1.) What is the precise classification system used to label a fish as Triple A?

2.) Why or why not should core scale horse shoes play a role in such a determination?

3.) Does anyone out there know anything more about core scale horse shoes that they can share?

The silly A, AA, AAA grading of fish is similar to the way S&P and Moody's appraise coporate bonds in terms of default risk. However, you won't see any farm giving a B rating or a C or Junk status to the fishes because it will affect their sales. AAA rating normally assumes that you are buying the cream of the crop as in the farm's best fish. Normally, the farm will only have a limited number of AAA grading fish in order to boost up the price. Its not in the farms interest in having too many AAA grade fish as the price will drop, like corporate bonds not many of them can achieve AAA status coz it will be able to sell at a premium and is best kept exclusive. As for the green core, i think you all of you can just read the thread posted in AF. Many factors can affect why the fish has a green core. These days, the farms also realise that they have to ensure quality in order to ensure repeated sales, hence, it is almost unlikely where they were sell a substandard fish at a premium price to "cheat" a customer. Common logic says this, It cost between 1-3 million Singapore dollars, more in some cases to start an arowana farm, after the farm starts producing especially the new farms, they will want to establish themselves in order make a name for their products. Hence, its not in their interest to sell substandard fish for a AAA grade as from what i understand, the distributor in Canada is pretty new.

 

[Yuppa]

very interesting thread, however in regards to green horseshoes, I really don't think thats indication of "green blood"

i mean.. you cross a red with a green.. what do you get? a yellowtail. maybe when young yellowtail can be confused for low grade red by inexperienced hobbyist, but truth of the matter is, it will look nothing like a real red.. Yet real reds have green horseshoe when young and develop into FINE reds..

I am not as experienced telling rtg/xback x green, however I am sure they do not have as brilliant/strong fin colors as real gold.. and the xback in this thread, it looks fine.. good gold tone, strong deep fin colors.. I would be *shocked* if it didnt turn out to be a high quality xback.

regarding farms selling mislabeled fish.. I think until we have conclusive proof, a good set of development pics that obviously shows said aro is not as advertised, we should hold our tounge.. while some ppl might not always be happy with aro or think they didn't get as good as they should have, untill aro is big and can see for sure, we must trust the farms.
Because of the online community, I doubt any farms are going to try to pull a fast one, if they do they will not be in business long.

 

[EKen]

This thread is interesting indeed...

I am not too familiar with Horseshoe markings, as it did not get my attention before. I have never had a Green, or any Arowanas with horseshoe markings. But then again, I never had such a small aro. But you have to remember that his core is still pale due to WTT from before the sale, so let just wait and see if those horseshoe markings stay...

About the labelling, personally, I don't care about the names: AAA, Marble Blue, Platinum Head, Premium Selected, it's just some fancy shit for me. I believe that the way to go is:
Look at the fish, at his traits, his shine, body shape and swimming posture, assuming the fact that you can look at the fish before buying it, which was the case here. Then compare all the elements mentionned to his asking price. If it makes sense, and you can afford it, then go for it.

And in this case, I believe that the price of this fish, compared to his quality (I assumed by its pictures) was very reasonable, plus the buyer had photos and videos of the fish before making the purchase.

Would I buy this fish, if I still had another tank left, definitely.

 

[T1KARMANN]

if it has the horse shoe scales meaning it has green genes doesnt that make it a banjar

 

[m_class2g]

Honestly its really hard to say what the farms have done as far as keeping the quality of the fish consistant. Im sure they mix and match dif breeds to create the best looking aros. For me, it boils down to if i like that particular aro,then ill buy it. Thats how i go about choosing my aro. Not by what the farm calls it cuz i agree... Theres too many names for aros now. However, i will only buy from a well known farm that has a good rep around the aro industry.

 

[T1KARMANN]

for me farm means nothing if i like i buy

some of the smaller not so well known farms produce a better grade fish over the big farms who sell millions of fish every year and don't care so much about quantity just gross turn over

 

[EKen]

for me farm means nothing if i like i buy

some of the smaller not so well known farms produce a better grade fish over the big farms who sell millions of fish every year and don't care so much about quantity just gross turn over

I feel that way too. And that is one of the reason why I feel a bit hesitant about group buys, as I can't see the fish first. I mean, it is still a fish, and each one is different.

If a girl's last name is Jolie, it does not mean that she is surely pretty...

 

[uberdave]

I feel that way too. And that is one of the reason why I feel a bit hesitant about group buys, as I can't see the fish first. I mean, it is still a fish, and each one is different.

If a girl's last name is Jolie, it does not mean that she is surely pretty...

Possible to pay extra $100 to state that the fish must have cleared lvl 5 shine, long whiskers and such else fish will not be accepted?

 

[Arodynamic]

Arowana grading has always been a subjective matter even for the farms, all farms have their own grading criteria and their experienced eyes to guide them and thats all there is to it. All farms will almost certainly list shine/shine level as their top criteria for grading with shape, physical attributes, colour and genetics taken into account. For the keen hobbyist all he has to do is make sure is that he likes the fish and not be blinded by the aa grades.