Water Quality

Mr.wilkinson

Mr.wilkinson

Sponsor
Hello all

I have a 220g with 8 arowna siz ranging from 7 to 11 inches, 1 fly river turtle she is about 1.5kg and one 10 inches Dat.

I am running 3 x marineland c530 and 1 fx5 i do water change twice a week 10 to 15 % each time i feed them once or twice a day depending how hungry they are i never leave uneaten food in the tank. but i can never get the amonia to 0 im always between .5 to 1 ppm my nitrite are at 0 and my nitrate well its hard to tell because the colors on the charts seem so simillar to my eyes they are somewhere between 40 to 80 ppm

Anyway my question is the following :
why cant i never get my amonia to 0 ?
are canfilter that uneffective ?
i know im probably overstocked but im running a lot of biofiltration .

I upgrading my tank to a 10 feet mega tank soon and i will be using a wet/dry sump. so i know i will be safe in the future but i would still like to have those question answered
 
I do 2 water changes a week 30 percent adding prime and salt. 10percent is way to small. How r u doing water changes?how long has the tank been running?
 
bro the marineland filters dont work exactly well,
i have HALF your stocklist and im running 2 fx5s, 1 xp4 and a 2075 and i still gotta do 2 water changes a week.. i suggest scrapping some of the marinelands and getting another fx5
 
You should test your tap water first of all.


Are you running any large air stones in the tank? Canfilters require lots and lots of oxygen to produce maximum bio filtration. I much prefer wet/drys as they seem to process ammonia more quickly than canisters and I tend to use canisters for mechanical filtration.
 
I am changing the set up before the end of the year will have a 150g wet/dry sump with drip & drain and ocean clear 325 for mechanical filtration . Wont be using the canfilter much unless i need hospital tank or something.

By testing tap water first you mean i run the same test on the tap ?

I will do that . I will also change a larger volume of water 75g twice a week should be good right?
 
If you are just aging Montreal water and not using Prime the theres no hope for your ammonia to be at 0.
I run my water through carbon sediment filter first then into my tank.
With that bioload u should be doing 30% twice a week.
 
"are canfilter that uneffective ? "

Canister filters are my second choice, after wet/drys.

When sized properly to the tank and stocking, they are very effective.

The reason why a wet/dry's bacteria is more effective, is that they house a different bacteria than a canister generally wouldn't. Aerobic bacteria is more efficient than anaerobic bacteria is. Wet/drys also generally hold a far greater ammount of media, offering more contact time. The anaerobic bacteria doesnt need 02 to oxydize ammonia.. in fact it doesnt use it at all. Adding an air stone to the tank will help with gas exchange at the surface, but wont help the bacteria in the canister.

So to answer your question. No, canisters are not uneffective. They simply must be sized properly. Consider what your keeping, and how much media the canister can hold. Then consider if the canister can turn the tank over enough times per hour. Aim for 6-8Xs an hour with a canister as a bare minimum...

Canister ratings mislead people. Its that simple. An FX5 is rated for a 400gal tank, while the c530 is rated for a 150gal tank. Both filters hold almost the same ammount of media, and flow rates are very simular once all is said and done(hoses attached, filled with media) So why the huge difference in recommended aquarium size? Sales gimmic. Simply put.
While they could support the tanks they say they could, the tanks would have to be very lightly stocked.


"why cant i never get my amonia to 0 ?"
i know im probably overstocked but im running a lot of biofiltration .

Im going to answer these two questions together, as they actually relate to each other.

You cannot get your ammonia down for the same reason you are confused about it. You are over stocked and you actually dont have alot of bio filtration for that stock. Lots of filtration yes, but not enough to support what you are trying to keep. You GPH is fine, but not the ammount of media.

The c530 and FX5 hold about the same ammount of media. Around 6 liters each. While the 530, actually holds more, one of the baskets is taken up by the sponges. So it get knocked down to 6 liters.

So even if you had ALL available media space filled with bio media, you are still only running a little more than 6 gallons of media. Simply not enough to support that tank. You would need at least double that ammount to support that tank in its current standing. More will be needed in no time.
With what your running now, you barely have enough to support the arowanas, let alone the turtle(whom i can imagine produces a huge bio load), and the big dat.

Water changes are not going to help with your issue. While they will lower the ammonia levels but removing it from the system, it doesnt solve the issue. You simply need more bio.

Your nitrates are actually high IMO as well... Keep in mind that nitrates can lower the blood/oxygen levels in your fish... which is the reason nitrates are a growth inhibitor.

Personally, i would try to either lower the stocking, or add more bio.. and lots of it.

You'll have to do one of those to combat the ammonia levels.

Second thing id do is up the water changes... 40-60% twice a week...

Good luck!
 
h.l_nathan said:
If you are just aging Montreal water and not using Prime the theres no hope for your ammonia to be at 0.
.
Click to expand...



You can dump as much ammonia into the water as you like..... If there is a large enough bacteria colony to consume it... it will. If the colony is not large enough, and you have alot of media, more bacteria will colonate, and consume the ammonia anyway.


Bacteria colonys are only as big as the waste they are supporting... there is no such thing as extra bacteria... all you can do is have extra media for the bacteria to colonate on if it needs to.

If bacteria has run out of "room" in the filter, and additional ammonia is added to the tank, above and beyond what it can already support... then yes, there is nothing it can do...
Having "extra" media or more than enough media, will solve that issue.


Prime will nutrilize ammonia... but why use it if your filtration is propely sized? other than to remove chlorine, i see no need for adding extra chemicals to the water.
 
agreed....too high bioload...either reduce that load...do bigger water changes.....or get a bigger tank with more filtration.......
 
No amount of filtration in the world is going to fix the fact that eight arowana in a 220g is way over-stocked. I would say feeding 1-2 times a day is a bit too much, too. Unless they are newly received juvies, I don't see any reason for feeding aros more than once a day. The ones that are nearing the foot mark would be fine eating every other day.
 
Ok and about WC would it not be better to do 25 % 4 times a week instead of 40 to 60% twice a week. because im stuck with this set up for at least another 2 weeks and thats providing that my aquarium builder is not late

I will also move 2 arowana to a 180g tank that should help a bit
 
motoro said:
"are canfilter that uneffective ? "

Canister filters are my second choice, after wet/drys.

When sized properly to the tank and stocking, they are very effective.

The reason why a wet/dry's bacteria is more effective, is that they house a different bacteria than a canister generally wouldn't. Aerobic bacteria is more efficient than anaerobic bacteria is. Wet/drys also generally hold a far greater ammount of media, offering more contact time. The anaerobic bacteria doesnt need 02 to oxydize ammonia.. in fact it doesnt use it at all. Adding an air stone to the tank will help with gas exchange at the surface, but wont help the bacteria in the canister.

So to answer your question. No, canisters are not uneffective. They simply must be sized properly. Consider what your keeping, and how much media the canister can hold. Then consider if the canister can turn the tank over enough times per hour. Aim for 6-8Xs an hour with a canister as a bare minimum...

Canister ratings mislead people. Its that simple. An FX5 is rated for a 400gal tank, while the c530 is rated for a 150gal tank. Both filters hold almost the same ammount of media, and flow rates are very simular once all is said and done(hoses attached, filled with media) So why the huge difference in recommended aquarium size? Sales gimmic. Simply put.
While they could support the tanks they say they could, the tanks would have to be very lightly stocked.


"why cant i never get my amonia to 0 ?"
i know im probably overstocked but im running a lot of biofiltration .

Im going to answer these two questions together, as they actually relate to each other.

You cannot get your ammonia down for the same reason you are confused about it. You are over stocked and you actually dont have alot of bio filtration for that stock. Lots of filtration yes, but not enough to support what you are trying to keep. You GPH is fine, but not the ammount of media.

The c530 and FX5 hold about the same ammount of media. Around 6 liters each. While the 530, actually holds more, one of the baskets is taken up by the sponges. So it get knocked down to 6 liters.





Good luck!
Click to expand...


First of all, I was always under the impression anaerobic bacteria only broke down nitrates and converted them to nitrogen?

Second of all, increasing the oxygen level in the water in the tank is very good for the aerobic bacteria in the canister filters. If you increase the oxygen in the water, how can it not help the aerobic bacteria increase their efficiency?
 
RTG_Gerry said:
First of all, I was always under the impression anaerobic bacteria only broke down nitrates and converted them to nitrogen?

Second of all, increasing the oxygen level in the water in the tank is very good for the aerobic bacteria in the canister filters. If you increase the oxygen in the water, how can it not help the aerobic bacteria increase their efficiency?
Click to expand...

anaerobic bacteria does oxidize ammonia as well. Anaerobic and aerobic are really just descriptions of the environment. I'll give a better explanation, and answer your question when I'm not on my phone.
 
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