Grades of Asian Arowanas

[protoxeno]

I didn't know xbackgolden works for a aro farm? Oh xbackgolden do you know if farms keep like a geneology on the aros they breed that can be traced back from F1 generation?

 

[xbackgolden]

Ah come on now. That was the easy way out

Serious... IF you go to all the farms in SG, Qian Hu, Rainbow, Panda, Imperial Arowana, Dreamfish, Sing Arowana, Pang Long Arowana, Dragon Fish Industries etc etc... They have their own stock of good fish, really who determinds who gets them is the $$$ they are willing to pay.

 

[xbackgolden]

I didn't know xbackgolden works for a aro farm? Oh xbackgolden do you know if farms keep like a geneology on the aros they breed that can be traced back from F1 generation?

Nope. The arowana industry isn't as high tech as it seems really Anyway, sorry to disappoint you. all the xbacks you see, are all acutally hybrids the true blue crossback never looked the way that we are used to seeing them. So no one really knows how the F1 looks like.

 

[protoxeno]

Nope. The arowana industry isn't as high tech as it seems really Anyway, sorry to disappoint you. all the xbacks you see, are all acutally hybrids the true blue crossback never looked the way that we are used to seeing them. So no one really knows how the F1 looks like.

Aww I thought the farm would keep tabs on it so the stocks would get better and better. I guess we have a bunch of hybrids and nothing is 100% certain if its pure breed or not.

 

[eddie73]

Not really, there are some naturally occuring 5th level RTGs in the wild, dats what some farmers tell me. Its only later when they took poor quality xbacks to breed with the rtgs to maintain qc for the xbacks.

What is your definition of High Backs???

You are right, RTVGs have 5th level. In fact most RTGs have some shine on the 5th level.

For us here in Malaysia, we would want to think of HBs as a hybrid between low quality MGs and RTGs.

And some of us here has gone back to basics. I prefer old school RTGs with low shine but intense gold colouration and red fins in contrast to very dark top.

I love these colours compared to some hybrids which has high shine but poor color intensity. Not all but generally seen to be a washed out MG

 

[theweb88]

I see quality based on the fish itself, not the farms .

This is a truthful answer. Always judge the aro itself. Many branded aros with fanciful names have turn out otherwise.

 

[theweb88]

What is your definition of High Backs???

You are right, RTVGs have 5th level. In fact most RTGs have some shine on the 5th level.

For us here in Malaysia, we would want to think of HBs as a hybrid between low quality MGs and RTGs.

And some of us here has gone back to basics. I prefer old school RTGs with low shine but intense gold colouration and red fins in contrast to very dark top.

I love these colours compared to some hybrids which has high shine but poor color intensity. Not all but generally seen to be a washed out MG

Soon Classic RTGs will be hard to come by. Every RTG will soon be HBRTG.

 

[Cirrus]

From what I understand there never was just "one" Xback, RTG, or Super Red colouration. According to the CITES information I was reading yesterday, Asian arowana have always been found living in small clusters (200-1000 fish) in watersheds which tend to be cut off from one another. The fish have thus evolved in small groups cut off from one another. Thus, the colour morphs developed indepedantly of one another, even within the main colour groupings....

 

[xbackgolden]

Aww I thought the farm would keep tabs on it so the stocks would get better and better. I guess we have a bunch of hybrids and nothing is 100% certain if its pure breed or not.

Ya. they keep stock of their hybrid fish. But let me emphasize. Its hard to ensure that all the fishes in the pond are all gold base, or all are blue base. Most of the time they are mixed up. So if the brooder has a more blue based, the fry is normally sold as blue based, if the brooder has more of a gold base or gold shine, the fry is sold as a gold base. As for QC, in general a farm will keep a portion of its fry of a higher quality for future breeding. So that is what they call selective breeding. There are alot of tricks of the trade which even i don't know and they won't tell me coz its the farms livelihood. But its really not as high tech as you guys think it is. Of course, i know its hard to rationalise this fact.

 

[xbackgolden]

What is your definition of High Backs???

You are right, RTVGs have 5th level. In fact most RTGs have some shine on the 5th level.

For us here in Malaysia, we would want to think of HBs as a hybrid between low quality MGs and RTGs.

And some of us here has gone back to basics. I prefer old school RTGs with low shine but intense gold colouration and red fins in contrast to very dark top.

I love these colours compared to some hybrids which has high shine but poor color intensity. Not all but generally seen to be a washed out MG

yup. the old school rtgs actually have sharper shine as compared to even some xbacks. But at the end of the day, the gold shade of a xback and a rtg can be easily differentiated when they are side by side.

 

[protoxeno]

Ya. they keep stock of their hybrid fish. But let me emphasize. Its hard to ensure that all the fishes in the pond are all gold base, or all are blue base. Most of the time they are mixed up. So if the brooder has a more blue based, the fry is normally sold as blue based, if the brooder has more of a gold base or gold shine, the fry is sold as a gold base. As for QC, in general a farm will keep a portion of its fry of a higher quality for future breeding. So that is what they call selective breeding. There are alot of tricks of the trade which even i don't know and they won't tell me coz its the farms livelihood. But its really not as high tech as you guys think it is. Of course, i know its hard to rationalise this fact.

When they start off a pond, don't they first select all the fishes within the pond to be blue base xbacks and some gold core when they aquire the fish so that it ensure that the fry would be blue base as to suppose other type of xbacks? If 2 parent fish thats blue base the fry would intuitively be blue base right? At least a high percentage will be blue base since not 100% of the top gene will be displayed.

When the farm started, if they ensure all the pond is filled with fishes thats the same type then it should be well down to this generation we benefit the quality blood lines.

Also couldn't the farm scan the female fish when they paired up so they would have a record to make things even more accurate?

Guess the farm isn't really that high tech huh?

 

[xbackgolden]

When they start off a pond, don't they first select all the fishes within the pond to be blue base xbacks and some gold core when they aquire the fish so that it ensure that the fry would be blue base as to suppose other type of xbacks? If 2 parent fish thats blue base the fry would intuitively be blue base right? At least a high percentage will be blue base since not 100% of the top gene will be displayed.

When the farm started, if they ensure all the pond is filled with fishes thats the same type then it should be well down to this generation we benefit the quality blood lines.

Also couldn't the farm scan the female fish when they paired up so they would have a record to make things even more accurate?

Guess the farm isn't really that high tech huh?

Well, dats the truth, it is not easy to find 20 high quality mature blue based xbacks. even if you have $$$ to pay in sg of the right breeding age. Same thing for goldbase. Anyway, the genetics are so mixed up now that blue base and gold based can me created as quoted by the pioneer of arowana breeding. He says there is only crossback gold, red and rtg. If you don't believe me, use a nan light and shine it on ur xback and tell me wats the base color you see. After that, use a warm white light and shine it on the same fish. it instantly changes its color. If you decide view the fish under sunlight, i bet you will see a blue core in most arowana with the exception of a few. Its really not that high tech unlike what most people think.

 

[arl]

I guess the question is do the farm even know the mother aro? Or do they just all base it from the brooder?

 

[Yuppa]

I think there are no true RTG's left.

I have been searching for a pure RTG for the last 8 years.
I have only seen pictures of a couple.

NO ***NONE*** 5th level shine. at all.. period..
complete 4th row..

looks amazing, and you really can tell the difference compared to all the hybrid highbacks..

I was told, (correct me if im wrong) that in the 80's everyone just considered them gold and red, all the pure rtg's were put in ponds with xbacks..

by the time the hobby was really spreading in the 90's, there was no more pure rtg's available for sale.
I also agree, most highback rtg's have a lower gold intensity then more pure rtg's, however a lot of that could be upbringing, water, food ect.. I can't say for sure its cross genetics.

love to hear more input on this.

 

[xbackgolden]

I think there are no true RTG's left.

I have been searching for a pure RTG for the last 8 years.
I have only seen pictures of a couple.

NO ***NONE*** 5th level shine. at all.. period..
complete 4th row..

looks amazing, and you really can tell the difference compared to all the hybrid highbacks..

I was told, (correct me if im wrong) that in the 80's everyone just considered them gold and red, all the pure rtg's were put in ponds with xbacks..

by the time the hobby was really spreading in the 90's, there was no more pure rtg's available for sale.
I also agree, most highback rtg's have a lower gold intensity then more pure rtg's, however a lot of that could be upbringing, water, food ect.. I can't say for sure its cross genetics.

love to hear more input on this.

There are, all you need to do is specify exactly what you want.

 

[xbackgolden]

I guess the question is do the farm even know the mother aro? Or do they just all base it from the brooder?

Not really, unless it was possible to recognise each and every fish. Some people like remember each fish because of a specific trait.

 

[arl]

I saw a pic of a real RTG once. I think it was from a japanese hobbyist who have searched for this "real" RTG for years and years, only manage to find one. Was that piece ever nice!!!! I don't think it was even gold, it was more of a copper!!! I'll try to look for that site again, I wish I saved that pic!!!

 

[arl]

But then again, I read that RTG's originally came from three rivers or lake in Indonesia and each of these bodies of water have different shades of RTG's Some will have a redder fins and tails and others will have a higher shine (5th level) than others. So who's to say what is the Original. But that japanese RTG that I saw is totally different from what we get now. The Gold/Copper is just so intense!!

 

[arl]

Not really, unless it was possible to recognise each and every fish. Some people like remember each fish because of a specific trait.

So I guess a golden head brooder who mated with a fourth level (OK just kidding maybe 5th level) female xback Will have frys that will be sold at golden head price, but that's ofcourse after seeing it's potential thru the white tank treatment. I guess that's why there were several cases of aros being sold as goldenheads, and it does show at the time of purchase, but loses all these a few months in the costomer's tank and some shine drops to 5th or even 4th. But of course WTT is another story

 

[eddie73]

yup. the old school rtgs actually have sharper shine as compared to even some xbacks. But at the end of the day, the gold shade of a xback and a rtg can be easily differentiated when they are side by side.

Yes you are right bro!

Very constructive and positive discussion this thread