xbackgolden
New Member
Munjuls are normally sold at 12 inches. No one really buys them at 7-8 inches because of the cost.
Grades of Asian Arowanas
- Thread starter EKen
- Start date
Munjuls are normally sold at 12 inches. No one really buys them at 7-8 inches because of the cost.
xbackgolden
New Member
They are only sold to serious collectors in Taiwan, Korea, Japan and China. Its not selling too well in sg.
Cirrus
Arowana blogger
3 or 4 years ago it was PG Special and pretty much every body at AF forum, was convinced that PGS are indo rtg's imported by panda but can not give them the PG name since they're not really bred at panda farm. PGS then was same price or even cheaper than PG. I think there was even another name after "special" then now "supreme". Then there's also a PG hi-back. Your "product differenciation" does make a lot of sense, maybe that is the case now for the "supreme", they are priced much higher. I only base my informations on forums I don't have any inside information like you or most of the guys here . I agree with your PG breeding, I also believe that thy're not cross with x-back, PG's are already beautiful even in the 90's that's why they got so famous, and I don't think crossing an X-back with RTG was their formula for then. It's just selective breeding and they got a good breeding stock when they started. I remember reading that somebody asked mr Kan if PG is rtg X x-back. He answers "NO" panda gold is cross with panda gold........Panda Gold is Panda Gold
I tell you what...when I meet with Mr.Kan in a few weeks I'll try and get the WHOLE story from him!
As for Derek, I called him up a few weeks ago. He is getting ready to open up two farms worth of fish for sale! He sounds super busy. When I told him I was looking to put together a "big order", he asked me what I had in mind. When I told him around 30 fish, there was a silence for about two seconds...and then he says "30 is not a big order. 100 is kind of a big order." lol
Yeah, I know there was something going on the AF forums back in '05 when I first started arranging the group buys. I never really cared to get involved because the fish that came in were all so nice no one (including me) really cared!
Mr.Kan mentioned offhand that another of his old floor managers before Derek(can't remember the fellow's name) went on to form Dreamfish in S'pore. It looks to be a small world down there!
Cirrus
Arowana blogger
$9000 SG is about $6000 C. I have seen fish with higher asking prices than that in Vancouver, so the price does not seem unbelievable even for Canada. And of course remember that we are talking ASKING price here! Rumour had it that a fantastic Xienleng SR with an asking price of $6400 at BA in Richmond, BC back in 03/04 went for $4000 on Boxing Day that year...
jackson
Member
$6000 CDN. That is a high price. So where should we look into getting fish from that are close in the quality they offer? I know Cirrus say's we can choose the farm we all want to buy from soon. So what farm do all of you want to look into buying from?
I dont want my first high quality Aro to just be exspensive I want it to grow into a awesome fish that I am proud of. Not a fish I am going to look at and think $&it I was ripped off.
I dont want my first high quality Aro to just be exspensive I want it to grow into a awesome fish that I am proud of. Not a fish I am going to look at and think $&it I was ripped off.
Cirrus
Arowana blogger
The way you are thinking here is the way I have been thinking for the past few years. It is actually what underlay my getting involved in the whole group/direct buy thing in the first place.
Right now I have two ideas for buying fish in SEAsia. One is to do a single farm buy, as we've been doing with Panda for some time. The other is to try and do some kind of aggregate buy of individual fish from different farms. I don't know whether the latter idea can work or not. Since I am going to be living in SEAsia for such a long time, I may even look into what is involved in getting my own business license there...we'll see.
FOSSILFISH
New Member
The price differences for high quality Aro's in SE Asia are far apart. I don't think that we will ever get Premium Quality Arowanas in Canada if were not willing to compete with Japanese hobbists. These guys are in a league of their own, research some pics of Aro's being kept in Japan and you will see the difference.
Remember, the price you pay for a fish will reflect on what type of hobbist you are. I know I paid a higher price for my VIP FGXB but, as I see it develop I am not dissapointed as to how it has turned out.
Waiting for a premium fish to fall on your lap is a dream. Learn to pick a fish while its young or better yet, buy one that is mature with full colouration so you don't have to wait on how it turns out.
We must understand that when we buy a 6" Arow is still the luck of the draw in the end. That fish can develop in a few months or it may not.
I'm sure there are a few hobbists out there that is still trying to get the Arow's they want to see in their aquariums.
Red's be it super red,blood etc. may still end up being an orange fish or maybe a deep orange fish. But most of those fish will never be RED like some pics we see on the Arow farm sites.
The Red ones will always go to the highest bidder in the end. I guess you can say, "it's like finding a needle in a hay stack." If you pay a high enough price for a RED Arow from any farm be it SG or Indo, I'm sure the Farm will guarantee that you will be satisfied with the quality of the fish.
That means paying a $ 25,000 C$ to over $ 100,000 C$ price tag for an Arowana, and if your not happy they will even replace it (Of course depending on the fine print attached to the agreement). I hope you dont sound too surprised, the $9 G's we are discussing is chump change or a deposit to the Japanese hobbyist.
Anyone can drive a Ferrari but, not every one can afford one.
Well said. Oh how I hate those Japaneses...
I believe Arowanas Keeping to be like any other things in life. What you are willing to pay, is what you will be able to get. I do not expect to get a miracle deal on a BMW by paying it at a Civic price. Nor do I expect to buy a castle at the price of an appartment.
Some people complain about LFS being dishonest. But like any other place, there are always people who want to screw you out of your money. If you are willing to let that person take your money away from you, you are in part responsible for your own problem. Like anything else, it is your responsabilty to do your homework and get informed before spending a big amount of money.
Of course you can get lucky buying an aro at a cheap price and the fish could turn out nice, but what are really your chances...
protoxeno
New Member
I would feel that comparing something thats a Ferrari to a live stock is a bit over stating the fact of "you can't afford, too bad you can't have." mentality. But its true, its life and too bad for those hobbyist who can't pay $9000 on a arowana. And I am one of those hobbyist that can't justify myself to spend that much.
There are seller of livestocks who would exchange it for you if the high high price you paid for the fish if it didn't turn out as expected quality. But when it is large enough to tell, specially for reds take least 5 years to reach full potential, would the same value of that grown up fish be compared to the new fish exchanged be the same? Say they refund your money 100% of what you paid for at 8-9", that price won't match your current fish which you had for 5 years. Unless the grown up fish is so bad that you can't sell for 50% of the original price. In the real world, does that happen often?
It is true you also get what you paid for, given the assumption that the product is really just that good. But my friends BMW that was bought at a big price started to have more and more trips to the mechanic. Not all product out there is made exactly to ratio between quality:high price.
Eken, I do not think it is the consumer's fault for not researching enough, in part or not, on a seller who is out being dishonest praying on the misinformed consumer. If the fish you paid for a really is a good deal and you weren't lucky enough for it to turn out a beauty, it shouldn't be wrong for the hobbyist to say the fish didn't turn out to be a beauty. And definitely support more comments made on stores thats dishonest.
The notion being unethical to complain about a business due to dishonestly fearing that business will die off is just ridiculous.
There are seller of livestocks who would exchange it for you if the high high price you paid for the fish if it didn't turn out as expected quality. But when it is large enough to tell, specially for reds take least 5 years to reach full potential, would the same value of that grown up fish be compared to the new fish exchanged be the same? Say they refund your money 100% of what you paid for at 8-9", that price won't match your current fish which you had for 5 years. Unless the grown up fish is so bad that you can't sell for 50% of the original price. In the real world, does that happen often?
It is true you also get what you paid for, given the assumption that the product is really just that good. But my friends BMW that was bought at a big price started to have more and more trips to the mechanic. Not all product out there is made exactly to ratio between quality:high price.
Eken, I do not think it is the consumer's fault for not researching enough, in part or not, on a seller who is out being dishonest praying on the misinformed consumer. If the fish you paid for a really is a good deal and you weren't lucky enough for it to turn out a beauty, it shouldn't be wrong for the hobbyist to say the fish didn't turn out to be a beauty. And definitely support more comments made on stores thats dishonest.
The notion being unethical to complain about a business due to dishonestly fearing that business will die off is just ridiculous.
FOSSILFISH
New Member
BMW & FERRARI, it's all just examples. Just because a friends BMW ends up at the mechanics more often than it is on the road does not necessarily mean he won't get a good resale value at trade in or re-sell day. Will your friend be telling prospective buyers how much problems he had with the car in the past? Of course not, he will tell that buyer that it was the best car he has ever owned, and maybe even hype the BMW name while he's at it. He' not going to risk loosing the sale.
I think were discussing a few topics here. Resale value on a fish that does not meet the hobbyist expectation is one thing and buying a guaranteed Arowana that the farm is selling with a 100% guarantee is another.
You will never really know until you purchase one. You are treated differently by the Aro farmer when you are in the upper buyer level. I guess it's like being that, "HIGH ROLLER' gambler in Vegas, there are alot of perks included if your one of them. If I was interested in a Premium Quality Arow, I'm sure he's also not going to show you the standard stocks available.
Protoxeno, if you can't fathom spending $9,000 C$ for a Premium Arowana, that is your opinion. There is more than a hand full of hobbyist's out there in the GTA willing to bid higher prices for that premium arow. Let's not hate them.
We were all brought together by the Arowana, that is what we all have in common.
The arowana is like any product in demand, if the selling price of the fish does not meet the farmers selling price by the end of the day, they will produce cheaper varieties or strains of the fish.
Goes back to economics my friend.
That is why they produced BANJARS or 1.5 red in the late 80's & early 90's.
Yes, I know greens were available, but the Reds were more appealing, so why not produce an affordable RED Arowana cross that the masses can buy.
As buyer's do your homework first. Find out or research where the Aro's are from, which farm, what country, etc?
The LFS owner will tell you what you want to hear when you are at his LFS drooling at that fish.
In this industry just like others, "MONEY TALK's BULL $&!T WALKS".
I could cover hormones and colour enhancements of the fish chromata's but that's another story.
protoxeno
New Member
First of all, if you were to buy that BMW after my friend hide the fact how it really wasn't that great of a car, you would feel cheated afterwards finding out how the owner just talked trash to get you to buy right? So yes I agree how people will say anything you liked to hear to buy. But should that justify how business should be done? I think not. If its a bad car, you will prob get a bad deal on it from trade ins or re-sell since as you say "one price one product" right? Would the car dealer give you a better deal on a car they know it doesn't run well? I don't think so. We a know how much the value of the car goes down by once it just off the dealership right?
I for one can't sleep at night knowing I just lied to buyers and made a living that way. And I for one don't shop at places where the owner will deceit you to get you to buy. I for one can't sympathize with dishonest sellers.
Also don't put words in my mouth that I hate those who can pay $9000 on a fish. I never said that. I only emphasized the fact that buyers should voiced out what they have to say when they feel cheated. So where did you get the idea of my feeling towards those who have the willing $$$ to pay for a premium fish are a hateful one?
What your saying about banjars is like any product that find the asking price of the seller doesn't meet the asking price of the buyer, the producers just go make a new product. I thought a buyer would raises/lower their prices and the supplier raise/lower the prices to find an equilibrium thats economics right? What your saying about introducing a new product is a substitution and it isn't the only thing producers do to meet equilibrium. Introduction of a new product to substitute for the old one to meet equilibrium isn't the only option to producers and more likely producers simply lower/raise their prices to meet equilibrium. That is if the market is 100% efficient.
Could you explain to me how not meeting expectation is one thing and buying the aro with a 100% guarantee is another? Isn't the guarantee that you bought the aro from are there to guarantee your expectation and your satisfaction? And when your expectations doesn't meet and you exercise that guarantee to exchange shouldn't one consider how your exchanging your 5 year old red that doesn't meet expectation and satisfaction for another 12" fish? When you say your treated differently when your one of the higher rollers, are you trying to say the farm will exchange their 5 year old red that would certainly meet the hobbyist expectations for the not so satisfactory 5 year old red? If thats how it is truly is when it comes to fish, I have nothing else to say.