Old dogs new tricks....lesson learned

rudy

Moderator
When I built my sump for my 300 gallon due to size restraints of the stand the sump was quite a bit smaller than I was used to. With the large amount of water even if there was a power outage and the power came back on the loss of water would still not be enough to effect the system. Basically said I have never thought of putting a check valve on my pumps in the case a power failure. Strangely enough it actually came up a few weeks ago and I realized the importance of a check valve as without one if your sump is drilled for a drip system you run the risk of pumping all the wAter out of your sump after a power failure (if the power was to back on). Unfortunately this is exactly what happened to me last week still short of the check valves. Essentially the pumps came on drained the sump and with a lack of water in the sump it killed my bio. Essentially i have 20,000 of fish and am cycling a tank......wish me luck. Sometimes I wonder if this hobby is worth it.

Long story short put check valves on your pump returns.
 

chen88

Super Moderator
good luck Tim....try anything and everything to get the bio back up ie...Seachem Stability ...let us know the progress!..hopefully your rays and fish are big and strong enough to sustain from the lack of bio until it builds back up.
 

Joey

Moderator
How long was the power out for and how long did the sump run dry?

what type of sump was this? Was the sump set up to allow both anaerobic and aerobic bacteria?
 

rudy

Moderator
How long was the power out for and how long did the sump run dry?

what type of sump was this? Was the sump set up to allow both anaerobic and aerobic bacteria?

About 6 hours and yes the sump was set up to run for both however with the pumps being at the bottom of the sump there was neither as the thing probably had a half inch of water in it. Props for damned pumps however I put a new impeller assembly in the one and the second I did nothing and both still operate perfectly
 

Marowana420

New Member
i read your post 3 times. and i still dont understand. can you please explain it to me.

how can your sump run dry, if it has the same amout of water in it before power failure?
i thought bio media is better off dry (moist) than sitting in still water. is that ture?

Thx
 

rudy

Moderator
i read your post 3 times. and i still dont understand. can you please explain it to me.

how can your sump run dry, if it has the same amout of water in it before power failure?
i thought bio media is better off dry (moist) than sitting in still water. is that ture?

Thx

Yes I figured it would be tough to understand. The sump has a drain half way up do to the drip system. When the power goes out the sump drains to that hole which is about half way down so when the power starrts up it pumps to fill the tank to the overflows. In this case there is not enough water so the pumps simply pumps all the water out of the sump and the drip being a drip can't keep up
 

Joey

Moderator
That power outage, and time bacteria was left exposed is not enough to kill it all off..

Any anaerobic bacteria is fine for 24hrs without a food source if kept submerged. But may start to quikly die off after that. Some may die befor then, but definetly not all of it. They dont need oxygen to survive, and will die off if exposed to it.. but this has to be for more than 10 hrs.

The aerobic bacteria would also be fine for 6 hrs, much longer actually. Generally taking 12-24hrs for that to start dieing off.


Personally, i wouldnt worry about it...

Worse case scenario, you'll have a mini cycle as some of the bacteria did die and the remaining bacteria is having a hard time keeping up.... which is not a big deal either. More water changes for the next week or so will keep that in check while your bacteria repopulate..
 

rudy

Moderator
Due to the cloudy water the yellow ammonia (bright yellow), gasping rays and water changes constantly. I would disagree.
Regardless of the bacteria it needs some amount of moisture to survive.

That power outage, and time bacteria was left exposed is not enough to kill it all off..

Any anaerobic bacteria is fine for 24hrs without a food source if kept submerged. But may start to quikly die off after that. Some may die befor then, but definetly not all of it. They dont need oxygen to survive, and will die off if exposed to it.. but this has to be for more than 10 hrs.

The aerobic bacteria would also be fine for 6 hrs, much longer actually. Generally taking 12-24hrs for that to start dieing off.


Personally, i wouldnt worry about it...

Worse case scenario, you'll have a mini cycle as some of the bacteria did die and the remaining bacteria is having a hard time keeping up.... which is not a big deal either. More water changes for the next week or so will keep that in check while your bacteria repopulate..
 

Mack

New Member
Hey Tim to bad about your luck. If you need a hand let me know.
P.S the Xingu is getting huge!
Cheers
 
Rudy,
add 2 caps of prime or 4 every day to help the bio keep up,
or SIMPLE method is add 500 ML of seachem purigen to keep ammonia down so rays are fine, finally add 250 ML of stability to ensure your tank gets back to normal/
 

rudy

Moderator
View yesterday morning...gonna be a battle
 

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Cirrus

Arowana blogger
Shit, what a stressful situation. I have always kept an Eheim 2260 going on my big tanks in addition to my sump. I have had my sump screw up on too many occasions (hoses bending, clamps coming loose, pumps burning out), that I just don't trust them 100%. I find the amount of bio-media in a 2260 is enough to keep you from confronting a full on cycle in the event that your sump fails.

I will need to pick your brains on all this Tim. My 300 arrives in a few hours and so I have to start setting it up from scratch in the days/weeks to come (talk about a delayed delivery time on the tank, eh? :rolleyes: )

Good luck with what you are dealing with. Have your rays stopped eating due to the stress?
 

arl

New Member
That's weird. I shut off my fish tank about 8 hrs. every night (sometimes a lot more than that, longest was more than a day) and my biomedia is half out of water and the other half is in stagnant water and I never have any issues.
 

carcrazy

New Member
I had problems with my sump overflowing a while back after working fine for three years. I shut down the sump and run two xp3 cannisters and an Ultima 1000 pond filter. No more problems.

I am sure you already thought of this but do you have any other aquariums going? You can try getting some media from another tank to reseed/boost the bio in your tank. Or maybe you know someone near who can donate some media from an old tank. Good luck and keep us posted.
 

arl

New Member
That's weird. I shut off my fish tank about 8 hrs. every night (sometimes a lot more than that, longest was more than a day) and my biomedia is half out of water and the other half is in stagnant water and I never have any issues.

Forget about my comment about being "weird". My set up is different from yours so our tank conditions are not teh same. My tank has 3D rock back ground and floor is full of rocks. That alone is probably enough surface area for bacteria to thrive and support my bio load. Probably even without any more outside biofilter just water circulation is enough for my tank to survive. Compared to an all glass tank that you have to clean the surface regularly, bacteria won't have anywhere to propagate other than your biofilter sump.
 

DaiDee

New Member
What steps have you taken so far? I would have booked it to my LFS and stole all their filter floss from their system. Is there anyway you can lower the bioload? Perhaps find people to babysit some of your fish?

In your case, you are right about using a check valve. But in most, where a large enough sump can be use, there is no need in a properly designed setup.

Goodluck with everything.
 

rudy

Moderator
Update. Cycle happened all good now other than my discus. Kinda sad but they have every disease in the book. Lol. Rays are ok though so I am good
 
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