Stingrays as an investment?

[Cirrus]

Well, what do you guys think? I know in South East Asia people talk of Asian aros being an inevestment because you can always get involved in backyard pond or proxy breeding. Do we have the same kind of options available when it comes to exotic rays? Can we look on leos, hens, BD's and P14's as an investment instead of an expenditure? Assuming they are in fact potential investments, this could be great for the stingray keeping part of our fish hobby for years to come.

And of course the fact that a show-piece Asian arowana is the perfect tank mate is just an added bonus...

 

[Jesmond007]

bro,


i fully agreed ur statement...

cheers

 

[rudy]

I feed 40 shrimp per day to my small collection. It takes a while to get a head of yourself!

 

[Marowana420]

i think it would be a better investment if you buy a gold bar and put it in your tank. you dont need to feed it and it wont die. makes a nice tankmate too!!!

 

[homebrewed]

i think it would be a better investment if you buy a gold bar and put it in your tank. you dont need to feed it and it wont die. makes a nice tankmate too!!!

lol.

 

[Cirrus]

lol, that is too funny, yes a gold bar would be a better "investment" these days!

But you know what I mean, raising rays could turn out to be like doing the angelfish/discus/African cichlid "breeding thing". I am not saying you would get rich, but I think there is a better than even chance of eventually covering your upfront $ costs for the rays and their upkeep.

I remember a "long time" ago I bred angelfish and sold them to local pet stores for a buck or two each (they were long tailed black veils). I think I figured out that on my labour I made about $4 per hour. Raising oscars (blood red/tiger cross) worked out better, made about $6 per hour.

So, where would rays come out? If you can breed and sell quality stingrays for somewhere between $1000-2000, and raise a few broods per year, well, it is easy to see how you can actually pay off your upkeep costs of say $200 per month in food and $100 for electricity. After a few broods, you would even pay off your stock and maybe even your equipment. Then from there on out you would be making a profit!

Of course there are risks here, no doubt about that. But compared to some other trophy fish that you can not easily breed and still cost a fortune, at least rays give you a shot at maybe somehow breaking even...

Not to mention, if you can write it all up as a serious business plan and demonstrate its legitimacy, you should be able to write off a lot of expenses on your income taxes...on that last note please obtain professional advice to figure out exactly how to do it!

 

[h.l_nathan]

Theo then you can place your order soon then. I'll just wait until march...
On another subject. can you email Niko and tell him i'll call him tomorrow.

 

[Yuppa]

I was under the impression rays are hard to breed as well? (although easier then aro's in a tank)

 

[Cirrus]

Seems to me more people around the world are breeding them all the time these days, definitely easier than aros. What is needed is for little hobbyist communities or breeders clubs to develop across Canada. Our cities are so spread out. We need hobbyists in each major city to cooperate and share breeding stock and tank space within each city. That is how we can learn and share knowledge, get around the inbreeding problem, and share the risk.

 

[m_class2g]

i agree. i hope to one day be able to breed and sell my rays. at least itll pay for part of our expensive hobby lol.

 

[carcrazy]

I have had 4 batches of pups (9) from my mated pair of motoro in the past 2 years. At $150 a pup that's $1350. Food on the other hand, I go through a $20 box of shrimp (2.2 lbs) every week for the parent rays, that's about $2000 a year. And that's not counting the food for the pups, water changes and power.

You can get more for Leo's etc but I don't think that they are as easy to breed as motoro so you wouldn't get as many pups, either. You would be lucky to break even unless you do it on a large scale.

 

[RTG_Gerry]

Not to be a stick in the mud, but I'm thinking there will be a very limited market for high end rays in Canada.

 

[m_class2g]

I have had 4 batches of pups (9) from my mated pair of motoro in the past 2 years. At $150 a pup that's $1350. Food on the other hand, I go through a $20 box of shrimp (2.2 lbs) every week for the parent rays, that's about $2000 a year. And that's not counting the food for the pups, water changes and power.

You can get more for Leo's etc but I don't think that they are as easy to breed as motoro so you wouldn't get as many pups, either. You would be lucky to break even unless you do it on a large scale.

yea leos tend to take longer to breed. thats what ive read anyways. even 2 batches of leo pups a year is enough to support my hobby. even then, id have to wait another 2 years for these guys to mature so its a long time for me. lol. i dont mind making $ out of the hobby but breaking even is good enough for me!

 

[Cirrus]

Not to be a stick in the mud, but I'm thinking there will be a very limited market for high end rays in Canada.

Right now yes, but if we can produce home grown rays for sale locally in our respective cities at prices say 20-30% lower than imports (think of no shipping etc.), then more people become interested. Likewise, the more of us keep rays, and take outstanding photographs of them ( ), then the more we grow the hobby.

For me it is the breeding aspect that I find the most exciting. Whether angels, oscars or discus, I have always been focussed on breeding the fish I keep. My motivation in getting a 550 gallon was actually for breeding aros; I now realize I have a much better chance of success with rays.

 

[RTG_Gerry]

Right now yes, but if we can produce home grown rays for sale locally in our respective cities at prices say 20-30% lower than imports (think of no shipping etc.), then more people become interested. Likewise, the more of us keep rays, and take outstanding photographs of them ( ), then the more we grow the hobby.

For me it is the breeding aspect that I find the most exciting. Whether angels, oscars or discus, I have always been focussed on breeding the fish I keep. My motivation in getting a 550 gallon was actually for breeding aros; I now realize I have a much better chance of success with rays.

If the price was 30% lower, I might be interested. Until then, my marbles will have to do.

Theo, rays have been my greatest photography challenge to date.

 

[Joey]

Stingrays can be a great investment. Given if you have a market for them and the ability to move them(ship successfully)

 

[rudy]

Right now yes, but if we can produce home grown rays for sale locally in our respective cities at prices say 20-30% lower than imports (think of no shipping etc.), then more people become interested. Likewise, the more of us keep rays, and take outstanding photographs of them ( ), then the more we grow the hobby.

For me it is the breeding aspect that I find the most exciting. Whether angels, oscars or discus, I have always been focussed on breeding the fish I keep. My motivation in getting a 550 gallon was actually for breeding aros; I now realize I have a much better chance of success with rays.

Truthfully? I have mixed feelings on this. I think the whole fascination with me on hard to get rays is that they are exactly that. The fact that more and more are on the band wagon scares me a bit. I remember trying to get rare south and central american cichlids in. I swear I am the reason why some of the rareset of the rare are here.. and readily available. The only problem was is that as soon as they were available I got bored.... Maybe I sound like a swelled head but I swear some of the reason that Umbees, and some other rare cichlids came to Canada is because I persistantly tried and spammed every person I could until I got the first. Then I would keep it for a few months and sell it because the "hunt" was over.

With rays this has never happened. Even my wife says it is the only fish I has stayed consistantly interested in. It is because the hunt is far from over. The fact that Theo and a few others are trying to make them cheaper and readily available scares me a bit.

I think I just had a revelation........................................

 

[chen88]

well...I remember I got my first Leo for $400! WC at 10-12" for $400....from Oliver...we still laugh about those days...and I'm sure they were even cheaper at one point!. I got my newer leos early this year for just under 2K each....and now you can get them (smaller then the sizes of mine) for slightly over 1K. NOT a bad thing. Like you mentioned Rudy...sometimes with drops like that takes the "Rarity" out of it....I like things that are rare....well unless they disappear on us, the rarity will become plentiful if the right care is taken to bring back these species to us!....when I first got into Aros, my first 5" CR cost me just under 4K in Mississauga...now it's 1K....much to do with the reccession and good breeding program?

I used to be one of a few with large colonies of Zaire fronts and successfully breeding them and making a buck or two on them.....had them all, now people are selling similar breeding colonies for 1K whereas before it would take me almost a couple of years to gather up a large colony and costing me more then 3K....

Time changes I guess...

 

[Cirrus]

Yes, times change. The ray hobby - especially ray breeding - seems to be really taking off in Europe, SE Asia, and USA. The time is right for interested hobbyists in Canada to get going I think.

I suppose there is a difference between pure collectors and breeders of fish. I want to breed the fish I own, or at least fail trying. I have always gotten bored just having a trophy fish, I want to breed the trophy fish! I also really enjoy networking globally with a range of serious hobbyists on certain fish. That is beginning to happen for me now with rays I think.

As far as "exclusivity" goes - P14's, BD's, exotic hybrids - there will always be further challenges and milestones to reach - for collectors and breeders.

I do not see prices coming down any time soon for ray keepers in Canada as a result of breeders operating inside Canada. Through the use of group buys, however, we can definitely leverage better pricing by reducing the shipping cost and obtaining better bulk purchase discounts.

Finally, the kind of breeding project I envision will take years to come about. It is by far more a vision at this point than reality...

 

[RTG_Gerry]

Well right now an adult leo is listed on Oliver's for 6K usd + 12%.

I can distinguish between hard to get fish and fish that are stupidly priced. I've always known that with some fish that are hard to get and or stupidly priced, they are often that way because sellers want them to be that way.

I don't mind paying good money to get "hard to get" fish, I just object to paying stupid prices for them. And if breeders hold out for lots of money, it's only a matter of time before someone finds a work around.